Monday, October 26, 2009

Ahhh, Liberalism in Religion. Its Name is Tool of Satan

Cardinal Newman:

For thirty, forty, fifty years I have resisted to the best of my powers the spirit of liberalism in religion. ... the doctrine that there is no positive truth in religion, but one creed is as good as another, and this is the teaching which is gaining substance and force daily. It is inconsistent with any recognition of any religion as true. It teaches that all are to be tolerated, for all are a matter of opinion. Revealed religion is not a truth, but a sentiment and a taste; not an objective fact, not miraculous; and it is the right of each individual to make it say just what strikes his fancy. ... As to Religion, it is a private luxury which a man may have if he will; but which of course he must pay for, and which he must not intrude upon others, or indulge in to their annoyance.

...there is much in the liberalistic theory which is good and true ... justice, truthfulness, sobriety, self-command, benevolence...

Don't smirk quite yet, Folkie and Capper...

...There never was a device of the Enemy, so cleverly framed, and with such promise of success.

Oh, yah.

Fr. Hunwicke


Anonymous said...

The tool of Satan is when Theocrats like yourself pronounce one religion as the "true" religion and employ whatever means necessary to convert "heathens". Religion is a matter of faith!

Imagine the results if people around the globe came to the realization that it is impossible with our present knowledge to find out which is the "true" one, considering there are over 11,000 religions. Imagine the results if people accepted their religion as the best faith for them, while recognizing that MOST religions motivate people to lead better lives. People might be less inclined to oppress, discriminate against, or commit mass murder and genocide against people of other faiths such as has happened in Northern Ireland, Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Cyprus, Nigeria, Sudan, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Sri Lanka, Philippines, Indonesia, the United States, etc.

Dad29 said...

Yah, well, before all that happens, I think you ought to look hard at Catholicism.

Labeled "100% True" since Christ. By Christ.

Anonymous said...

YOUR faith. My faith is Methodist. Am I not a "true" Christian?

Fahim kamran mirza said...

Religious scholars generally agree that writing a single definition that applies to all religions is difficult or even impossible, because all people examine religion with some kind of critical eye, and the term is therefore fraught with ideological consequences for anyone who might want to construct a universal definition. Talal Asad writes that "there cannot be a universal definition of religion ... because that definition is itself the historical product of discursive processes"[5]; Thomas A. Tweed, while defending the idea of religion in general, writes that "it would be foolish to set up an abstract definition of religion's essence, and then proceed to defend that definition from all comers."[6]

The earliest definition of religion is from Johnson's Dictionary, which simply calls it "a system of faith and worship". Friedrich Schleiermacher in the late 18th century defined religion as das schlechthinnige Abhängigkeitsgefühl, commonly translated as "a feeling of absolute dependence".[7] His contemporary Hegel disagreed thoroughly, defining religion as "the Divine Spirit becoming conscious of Himself through the finite spirit."[8] Clifford Geertz's definition of religion as a "cultural system" was dominant for most of the 20th century and continues to be widely accepted today.

Dad29 said...

Irrelevant, Fahim.

There is one true God in three Persons--and the second Person defined the true religion.

Catholicism--both Eastern and Western.

Schliermacher, et al, were nice guys, but in a fog of their own creation.

Dave said...

Anonymous Methodist:

Be a man (or a real woman) and at least get a moniker. Otherwise, you're still a coward.

As far as Methodism goes...can you trace it 2000 years back without a break? Didn't think so.

Amy said...

The tool of Satan is when Theocrats like yourself pronounce one religion as the "true" religion and employ whatever means necessary to convert "heathens". Religion is a matter of faith!

Okay, if religion is a matter of faith - then what's the point to having a religious belief, and acting on it, if you don't believe it to be 100% true?

I think you need to pick up a copy of The Screwtape Letters if you think believing one's faith is the truth is a "tool of Satan"...

Anonymous said...

Amy--Imposing religion upon others is the tool of Satan. Believe what you believe in. Fine by me. I take offense when people FORCE their faith on me or QUESTION my committment to my faith.

Dad29--All you have to say to Fahmi's citations is "irrelevant"?
That these philosophers are simply "wrong"--end of story?

Dave--And your point was??? Lest we forget Catholicism has also had their controversies and schisms throughout its history. Call me a coward all you want. Who cares? GOD LOVES ME.

Dad29 said...

Hos objections to the definition of "religion" are irrelevant.

Amy said...

Imposing religion upon others is the tool of Satan.

So who, exactly, is "imposing" religion here? And who questioned your commitment to your faith? I merely asked why you would profess a faith, and practice a faith, if you didn't believe it to be the correct one. Do you believe Methodism is the correct faith? If so, we have no quibble. If not, why not? And then what's the point to worshiping as a Methodis if you think Buddhism or Taoism is equally as valid?

If merely asking that's enough to get your undies in a twist, you're the one with issues, not me.

As to schism and such - please, Catholicism as it's professed today is the same as it was 2,000 years ago. Every ordained priest and bishop can trace his vocation back through to the apostles who were sent forth by Christ. People have left, dissented, and otherwise questioned the Catholic faith, true, but her core teachings and doctrines have lasted over two millenia. Those dissenting groups are no longer Catholic. THIS is one of the reasons Catholics tend to - you know - believe that their faith is the one Christ founded. We have the history to back it up.

Anonymous said...

Amy--I want to make sure that you understand that I hold no ill will to you or your clarifying questions. So if my tone has sounded angry, I apologize.

Let me just say that there have been posters here, as well as Dad29 himself, who in the past have the audacity to "tell" people that Catholicism is the "true" faith and "question" how some Catholics view their faith, whether it be directly or indirectly. That bothers me. There is no "correct", "preferred", "dominant", or "right" religion. It is a matter of faith. I am Methodist because I believe in what it stands for. I have a personal relationship with God. It is 100% true for ME. A Muslim follows Islam because he/she believes in what it stands for. They have a personal relationship with Allah. It is 100% true for THEM. No one faith is "holier", "better", or "righteous" than another faith. I respect other religions. It really is that simple.

Artesian said...

Catholicism the "true" religion? Yeah, the pesky inquisitions that murdered and tortured millions leave no doubt. That's sarcasm you brain dead morons. Jesus Christ and belief solely in Him as Savior is the only true Church you fools.

Dad29 said...

Raca, eh?

JC founded a Church. You may ignore that all you like.