Wednesday, July 16, 2008

Prophesy for Me---

You remember those words from one of the Passions...

The Catholic Church did a little of that prophesying. One specific instance, paraphrased here:

...a general lowering of moral standards throughout society; a rise in infidelity; a lessening of respect for women by men; and the coercive use of reproductive technologies by governments Humanae Vitae, the encyclical which re-affirmed the Church's stance against artificial contraception.

That was in 1968.

Well, folks, that worked out exactly as advertised--four for four.

THAT batting average should tell you something.


Amy said...

Yep, but remember, we're still "out of touch."

PaulNoonan said...

I'd say 2/4, tops.

Amy said...

Really - which two?

Other Side said...

Nah, 1/4. Moral standards rise and fall in cyclical patterns.

Same with infidelity.

A lessening of respect for women? Conservatives have been disrespecting women for years. So, I guess that one is nominally true.

Coercive use of reproductive technologies? That's an interesting one. I would be curious to see your examples.

PaulNoonan said...

I'd give them that in China, but that was really caused more by communism. I mean, we're talking correlation here. If we're talking causation it's 0/4. I think a rise in infidelity is probably true also, which is why I gave you 2/4, but I doubt there is much causation there. Clearly morality is on the upswing, so you lose on that one, and women have far more respect now than ever before, so you lose on that one.

Anonymous said...

"Conservatives have been disrespecting women for years."
Oh, really, how so?
Seems to me the liberals have been disrespeting women quite a lot. The patronize them, view them as victims, hold them down in education, put many of the poor women of welfare with little chance of getting them off of welfare, encourage pregnancies at young ages etc...

Amy said...

Nothing is more disrespectful to women than treating them as sex objects, which contraception - and abortion - does. That is a decidedly liberal philosophy.

That’s pretty funny, seeing as I’m a woman and a conservative. I’d rather spend time with my husband, father-in-law, father, Dad29, and a plethora of those “evil” conservative men than a liberal man who thinks my body is for his pleasure, that I should contracept and pollute my body with synthetic hormones, and – if I get pregnant – have an abortion that could lead to a plethora of medical problems for me.

Or the liberal women (read: feminists) who think it’s a crime that I’d prefer to stay home and raise my children rather than work 50, 60, 70-plus hours a week.

Or the atheists who think I’m “brainwashed” for *choosing* to be a practicing Catholic and that I couldn’t have possibly come to that decision without being forced or coerced by some big, bad, male.

I’ve never had a conservative man belittle me in the way liberals do. Same goes for pretty much any woman who doesn’t toe the liberal line.

That's not "respect" in any way, shape or form.

So – in that argument (along with all others) – you don’t have a leg to stand on.

“Coercive use of reproductive technologies – see forced abortions, forced sterilization, and forced contraception. Look no further than China and its one-child policy, or the one-child (or no-child) policies thrown about by environmentalists and human extinction folks. It’s not too out there to think this could be come the norm.

If moral standards “rise and fall”, then I anticipate a resurgence of personal restraint, responsibility, and morality in the near future. Same with fidelity. But I don’t think that will happen because this is a straw-man argument. Liberals, lefties, and the like are claiming there *cannot* be moral standards because everyone’s morality is personally relative. How can something that *cannot* exist “rise and fall” unless it's relative? Or do you acknowledge there is a set of moral standards to which society should adhere – namely those of the Church and her teachings.

But I don't expect you, Paul, or the rest to comprehend that.

Your own erroneous worldview makes it impossible to wrap your head around how exactly right HV is.

Joe of St. Thérèse said...

HV 100% dead on!, something about being Catholic and standing against the world ;)

Dad29 said...

It's useful to remember that porn is now a huge industry, fueled by the availability of the 'net. That's an 'objectification' of women if there ever was one.

As to 'cyclicality' of morality--I think you're confusing 'morality' with 'religious revivals.' They are two distinct things.

Something like 60% of black children are born out of wedlock, and 30% of whites these days--MUCH larger figures than in the 1960's.

I'm not able to cite figures on marital infidelity--but "serial marriages" are also quite significant, given the divorce/remarriage rates.

As to "enforced sterility," look no further than Louisiana, whose Republican "Catholic" governor just signed legislation to allow it (for male rapists.)

One can argue causality in the case of PRChina, but one cannot deny that it's happening there.

And, by the way, it could be argued that (in 3rd world countries) the government/Planned Parenthood alliance-for-the-Pill is 'forcing' infertility...