Monday, April 19, 2010

Clinton, the "Anti-Violence" Guy

Oh, yah, I forgot this little factoid:

Bill Clinton's government was responsible for killing more American civilians on American soil than any President alive,

...and he seeks to chide Tea Party protesters for pithy signs espousing a return to the core principles of our Founders.

Yup. Horny Bill is just the kinda guy to spread that 'irenicism' message, alright.

HT: Confederate Yankee


Anonymous said...

Your premise is false on its face and the rest of your argument falls rapidly apart.

Without much thought most people would realize that Lincoln was responsible for more US citizen's deaths on American soil than Clinton.

Dad29 said...

Obviously you are a Publick Screwels graduate.

Notice the qualifier "LIVING" at the end of the quote?

IIRC, Lincoln is dead.

Anonymous said...

From a commenter on Confederate Yankee--couldn't say it better!

"First of all, Ruby Ridge and Waco were terrible, terrible travesties. Innocent people were killed because of the antipathy, negligence and seeming desire for confrontation on the part of federal agents at the scene. Clinton and Reno got bad information from people on the ground, and made bad decisions based on that information.

That said, no one pushes you into violence. A person chooses violence. The Clinton Administration, with its attempt at healthcare reform, deficit reduction, earned income tax credit, and waiting period for handgun purchases, did not force Timothy McVeigh to murder 168 people.

If we are losing representative government, it is because the people are losing representation in favor of money. The more money you have (e.g. investment banks) the more representation you have in the legislative process.

The majority voted for Bush and his Republican Congress, and we got Republican policies. Then, the majority voted for Obama and his Democratic Congress, and we're getting Democratic policies. The common thread is that any change in the law has to benefit existing monied interests.

Basically, what I'm saying is that if you believe that the greatest threat to liberty is the government, tell people about it. Try to change the government. People on the right and people on the left (distinct from Republicans and Democrats) agree that the government is to some degree unaccountable and out of control. We can all work to make it more accountable.

But the more representative we can make the government, the crazier you look when you rationalize political violence, also known as terrorism."

krshorewood said...

Wow, just wow dad. Besides this being a classic example of white victimhood this guy is suffering from a deep level of dementia which demands institutionalization.

Nobody's rights were taken away then, nobody's are being taken away now.

As for David Koresh, he brought this on to himself and unfortunately took a lot of innocent people with him. And you people turn him into a hero.

If an African-American pull off a stunt like this you guys would be belching over it for years.

Hell. You are scared shitless about black kids with droopy pants.

Better start learning how to control yourself. Why is it every time we elect a Democratic president you all go ape shit. Children.

Dan said...

Kr, what is it with your racism lately? Tired of beating up on Down Syndrome kids?
You used to smarter and better than this.

Beer, Bicycles and the VRWC said...

More Lefties who don't know what their talking about. I have intimate knowledge of what went down at Waco. The government was dead wrong and an independent prosecutor would have said so. In fact, I'd venture the government was criminal.

Anonymous said...

"More Lefties who don't know what their talking about."

Says the Grammar King!

Anonymous said...

Really, Deekaman? A man (Koresh) who claimed to be a prophet leading a cult hell bent on achieving salvation through armed confrontation with the government; who practiced polygamy by fathering children with several women, including minors; who allegedly committed child abuse; and heeded Dad29's call to Buy More Ammo by blowing away men/women doing their job by executing a warrant based on information supplied by former Branch Davidians.

Did the Branch Davidians have every right to arm themselves? Absolutely.

Should the government take responsibility for overzealousness? Absolutely.

But Koresh and company CHOSE to use brute force when all that was required was to comply with the execution of a search warrant. Don't most conservatives say "Hey, you have nothing to fear if you follow police orders"? Hopefully you don't support violence against law enforcement when it attempts to conduct its business.

McVeigh CHOSE to take matters into his own hands by bombing a federal building. How convenient to make excuses that he "disapproved" of the federal government's handling of Waco and Ruby Ridge.

Would God approve of such devastation in loss of human life???

Beer, Bicycles and the VRWC said...

Wow....a comment on my grammar. It's the spelling, not the grammar.

On to the more important part.

The McClellan County Sheriff never had a problem stopping by to see how things were going with the Branch Davidians. Of course, he didn't show up in full combat gear with automatic weapons on pretty damn thin evidence. You may recall that this was "for the children". Ooops. Ended up doing it TO the children. Tell me that if this had been a raid by (the evil) Bush(-Cheney-Rove-Halliburton-Big Oil-Iraq-Election-Stealing-by-Guys-In-Brooks-Brothers-Suits Conspiracy) on a bunch of ELF folks you wouldn't be singing a different tune.

I call Bullshit. The government acted criminally.

krshorewood said...

So we are defending child molesters?

And again Dan. I'm er, white.

krshorewood said...

Let's distill this down to the original point. You may or may not be angry at the Branch Dividian raid. Understandable.

But this in now way excuses what happened in OKC. To even suggest that is disturbing.

krshorewood said...

BTW Deekman, the government didn't start those fires which immolated those kids at the branch.

The right's glorification of Koresh really calls them out to the be the hypocrites that they are.

Dad29 said...

Actually, the Gummint DID 'start' those fires; the gas used in the rounds was flammable.

Anonymous said...

So Clinton/Reno's actions at Waco were the primary motivation for McVeigh to act in a violent manner towards the government, even though his actions, in the end, weren't justified? It was mainly the fault of the Democrat, and not the individual.

Seems logical to me...NOT!

Did Koresh come out peacefully when being served with a warrant? No. Absolutely.

Could Koresh have addressed the charges on his own without endangering the lives of his fellow Branch Davidians? Yes. Absolutely.

Was Koresh praying for a violent confrontation with the government as the vehicle to achieve salvation? I say yes.

Was McVeigh exploiting anti-government sentiment--the supposed planned "execution" of a "peaceful" group by the feds--to "prove" his point? I say yes.

Anonymous said...

"Tell me that if this had been a raid by (the evil) Bush(-Cheney-Rove-Halliburton-Big Oil-Iraq-Election-Stealing-by-Guys-In-Brooks-Brothers-Suits Conspiracy) on a bunch of ELF folks you wouldn't be singing a different tune."

Completely different scenario! Not applicable here.

So, would you be "outraged" if Koresh was Muslim and engaged in the same behavior against the government and "innocent" people died as a result?

Beer, Bicycles and the VRWC said...

Koresh was served a warrant by a bunch of guys with guns in full battle dress. You are shi**ing me, right? What would YOU think about that?

What was Koresh's anti-government behavior? It was "claimed" that he was abusing the children. Never proven and again, the local sheriff said there was no evidence to support that claim.

And yes, I'd be as mortified if it was a Muslim sect.

Anonymous said...

"Koresh was served a warrant by a bunch of guys with guns in full battle dress. You are shi**ing me, right? What would YOU think about that?"

That I better do exactly what law enforcement tells me to do!

"What was Koresh's anti-government behavior?"

No, the appropriate question is "What were the accusations?" The modification of legal firearms to illegal firearms, polygamy, child abuse, statutory rape. Felonies.

A court of law would have determined if Koresh was innocent or guilty of the charges...had he offered unconditional surrender. That would prove difficult...he thought he was a messiah!

neomom said...

What McVeigh did was wrong and criminal. Period.

What Clinton/Reno did was wrong and criminal. Period.

What Koresh did was probably wrong, and may, or may not, have been criminal - but we'll never know.

In the end a bunch of kids got killed on two April 19ths in the 1990's. Koresh and McVeigh are dead.

Reno/Clinton are still free and Billy has the unmitigated gall to call me dangerous.