One could ask a thousand questions, but one will suffice:
What is ANY "Catholic" college doing allowing a leading abortion backer into their building?
Name: Hillary Clinton
Party: Democratic
Date - Time: 2/17/2008 - 11 a.m.
Location: Schuldes Sports Center, St. Norbert College, 601 3rd St. 44.44239 -88.0689
Type: Debate/Forum
There are plenty of facilities in Green Bay/DePere--the KI Center among them.
How in Hell did ....never mind. I answered my own question.
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22 comments:
Hmmm. Because most 'catholic' colleges are not really Catholic any more? This seems to be the trend over the last few decades.
Because we encourage a diversity of thought, including from people we may not agree with on all issues.
Because we encourage a diversity of thought, including from people we may not agree with on all issues.
Oh, yeah. I forgot; that's why we see these institutions with their doors wide open to so many trad Catholic speakers and points of view. I'd almost forgotten.
Because we encourage a diversity of thought, including from people we may not agree with on all issues.
So that's why the Pope was disinvited from a speaking engagement a university that encourages "diversity of thought"? Why - on college campuses throughout the nation - conservative guest speakers are harassed, shouted down, or physically assaulted with foodstuffs? Why conservative students are harassed by professors and their peers?
"Tolerance" and "political correctness" are notions that claim it's possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. And, in reality, euphemisms for saying, "You can think what you want so long as it toes our party line."
A college that claims to be "Catholic" - as St. Norbert does - should hold to Church teaching, and that includes conducting itself in a manner consistent with the Church's teaching on issues of life and abortion - something Hillary and Obama have no clue about and don't care for.
RAG, there are some issues on which Catholics can never 'agree' with HRC. Abortion is one.
In a Feb. 12 statement about Clinton's campaign stop at St. Mary's University, Archbishop Jose Gomez, said: "The Catholic bishops of the United States, in their 2004 document Catholics in Political Life, affirmed that when dealing with political candidates and public office holders, 'The Catholic community and Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles. They should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions.'"
"Our Catholic institutions must promote the clear understanding of our deep moral convictions on an issue like abortion, an act that the church calls 'an unspeakable crime' and a non-negotiable issue," Gomez said.
HRC can have ideas about taxes, foreign policy, and healthcare which differ from the Pubbies--and for that matter, she can have differing ideas about social justice than those of the Church.
But not abortion.
So?
Does the fact that Hillary speaks at St. Norbert's change one iota the church's teaching (and St. Norb's) on that subject?
Of course not.
I'll agree with Amy -- try going to school at UW-Madison and not be a liberal. It wasn't always fun.
But disinviting the Pope? Come on, when and where did that happen?
I know lots of places that would welcome him and they aren't all Catholic!
Our faith must be awfully weak if we worry that a presidential candidate (who probably won't even mention Roe v. Wade) isn't welcome at a college.
I don't see a problem with Catholic universities providing a forum for speakers with views in opposition to Church teaching.
Being exposed to different views is an important part of becoming educated and thinking critically.
I would have a problem if the university officially endorsed her candidacy. I would have a problem if St. Norbert's declared being pro-abortion an acceptable stance for Catholics to assume.
That's not happening.
St. Norbert's is a place of learning, not indoctrination.
I doubt that the college's Catholic students will go astray because Hillary is in the room.
Mary, St. Norbert College offered HRC a platform, which is simply inappropriate (at best.)
Do you REALLY mean to tell me that SNC students are unable to learn about HRC's platform from her website, or that the ONLY available room in all of Green Bay was a SNC hall?
Please. Don't insult SNC students, and don't try irenic condescension here.
It makes Dad29 very angry.
Yikes. I've angered you -- again.
You make an incredible leap by suggesting that I'm suggesting SNC students have NO OTHER access to Hillary and her views than by SNC hosting her on campus.
I did not say that.
I said that I don't have a problem with her speaking there. I don't think it's inappropriate. I would most definitely have a problem if the college honored her, like when Marquette University honored Martin Sheen.
St. Norbert's is not endorsing or honoring Hillary.
My home parish has had an imam speak at our church. Was that inappropriate? After all, there were plenty of other Catholic churches around to host the event. By your standards, my pastor was wrong (at best) to allow him to address parishioners.
Do you also have a problem when Pope Benedict meets with leaders of other religions?
As to this: "don't try irenic condescension here"
That makes me angry.
As an alumnus of SNC, I wrote to President Hynes and apprised him of my displeasure with the forum offered to HRC.
Let's not kid ourselves into thinking St. Norbert is "a place of learning, not indoctrination."
Four years of liberalist indoctrination was EXACTLY what I was subject to, coupled with horrible liturgy, lousy philosophy and theology, and a really miserable football team. Don't be mistaken: I loved my four years, and would happily do them all over again, but, then again, I love good combat.
Lastly, I cannot help but wonder what pastor in his right mind is inviting imams to his parish church. Say Mass, hear confessions, and go on your sick calls, Father, and all will be well.
No change for the positive will occur at SNC for years. They still haven't gotten the point, and won't until the old donors' monies are spent and there are no new bequests.
St. Norbert's is not endorsing or honoring Hillary.
So you wouldn't have a problem if Pol Pot or Adolf Hitler were offered a SNC room in which to speak, but did not offer them some "honor." After all, it's just a "learning" experience and shows us that SNC students are "being educated."
Yes or no, Mary?
Secondly, if your parish pastor allowed the imam to PREACH, that's wrong, wrong, wrong.
There is NO imam who is as rabidly pro-abortion as HRC. None, worldwide.
Your imam example is irrelevant, Mary.
Pol Pot or Hitler?
Come on.
I'm surprised you're falling back on using Pol Pot and Hitler as examples. That's a technique usually deployed by extremists on the Left.
OK.
If we're going to play games, you have to give me a timeline. At what point in their lives would SNC have extended the invitation? That would influence my decision.
Hillary isn't Hitler and she isn't Pol Pot.
Furthermore, neither Hitler nor Pol Pot were U.S. senators or candidates to be president of the United States.
I'm assuming you think of abortion as genocide. You can draw parallels between the human slaughter, but the similarity in your example stops there. Hillary's role in the abortion genocide is not comparable to the roles played by Pol Pot and Hitler in the atrocities for which they're responsible.
Regarding my parish's participation in an interfaith series, there was no "preaching."
And the example is certainly relevant in that an individual with beliefs that do not correspond with Catholic teaching spoke at a Catholic church.
Yah, Mary, we'll talk genocide.
Lemmeesee, heah, she's been influential in Federal abortion funding since January of 1997. That's 10 years of promoting mass murder.
Yes or no, Mary? Hitler never personally killed anyone, nor did HRC. Hitler provided the funding, just like HRC. Hitler provided the propaganda cover, just like HRC.
Yes or no, Mary?
As to the imam: not a mass murderer, not a facilitator of same, not a financier of same.
You pretend that HRC's abortion stance is similar to the imam's religion?
You have one thing right: they are both religious. HRC just happens to worship Baal.
Yes or no, Mary? Don't evade the question, Mary.
I'm sure you're acqainted, Mary, with moral theology. Here's a reminder of HRC's position on the abortion question:
"Immediate Material Cooperation. Immediate material cooperation occurs when the cooperator participates in circumstances that are essential to the commission of an act, such that the act could not occur without this participation. Immediate material cooperation in intrinsically evil actions is morally illicit."
..such as ensuring or furthering its (civil) liceity, or ensuring or furthering financing.
You know, like Hitler.
Yes or no, Mary?
I addressed your points in my previous comment. I did not evade your question.
You asked: So you wouldn't have a problem if Pol Pot or Adolf Hitler were offered a SNC room in which to speak, but did not offer them some "honor." After all, it's just a "learning" experience and shows us that SNC students are "being educated."
Yes or no, Mary?
That is the question, right?
I responded: If we're going to play games, you have to give me a timeline. At what point in their lives would SNC have extended the invitation?
It seems to me that you're evading the question.
Well, Mary, since you won't respond, I'll have to conclude that you won't respond.
I note your ad-hominem and "when Hitler was an altar boy??" inanity and infer that your capacity for rational argument is about the same as SNC's committment to Catholic values.
Dad29, my question is sincere. It's not inane. I asked for a timeline so I could give you a measured response. That's hardly irrational.
I would be against giving known evil incarnate murderous tyrants Hitler and Pol Pot a forum at St. Norbert's.
In the years prior to their known horrific deeds, I would not be against inviting them to speak at St. Norbert's.
There's your answer.
My ad hominem? You've got to be kidding.
Speaking of commitment to Catholic values...
Well, well.
So. We KNOW that HRC actively supports abortion and has directly or indirectly influenced public policy (and spending) towards that end.
Now if you would NOT support an appearance by Hitler (6 million victims or so...) but you DO support an appearance by HRC (well OVER 6 million killed since 1993), maybe you can reconcile your apparently contradictory responses.
By the way, "I'm surprised you're falling back on using Pol Pot and Hitler as examples. That's a technique usually deployed by extremists on the Left is an ad hominem.
My responses aren't contradicatory.
I do not consider Hillary to be an "evil incarnate murderous tyrant."
[Y]our capacity for rational argument is about the same as SNC's committment to Catholic values.
I take it you mean that in a good way.
Whatever, Mary.
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