Friday, April 26, 2013

A Moral Question

From Sipsey's Smuggler:

LESSON NO. 1: If a bureaucrat, or a soldier sent by a bureaucrat, comes to knock down your door and take you someplace you do not want to go because of who you are or what you think -- kill him. If you can, kill the politician who sent him. You will likely die anyway, and you will be saving someone else the same fate. For it is a universal truth that the intended victims always far outnumber the tyrant's executioners.

This does not seem to comport with your standard Christian moral code.

Or does it?

It IS the Christian moral code that one can--and perhaps should--allow himself to be martyred for Christ--that is, for the Faith.

But what if it's not about The Faith?

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

Spoken like a true disciple of Logical Positivism.

Or perhaps a proponent of situational ethics.

If God wanted you to be a gunslinger, Jesus would have brought that up in the beatitudes.

The Joker said...

First, Vanderboegh--who cashes federal disability checks--urged opponents to throw bricks through the windows of Democratic offices nationwide to protest Obamacare. “To all modern Sons of Liberty: THIS is your time. Break their windows. Break them NOW. Break them and run to break again. Break them under cover of night,” he wrote. Several Democratic offices were vandalized.

Apparently, Vanderboegh (and Dad29) does not subscribe to Matthew 5:39.

“Do not take revenge on someone who wrongs you. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.”


Second, Vanderboegh's statement is left wide open for interpretation. He ASSUMES that nearly everything our government does is tyrannical in nature, that it is inevitable our freedoms will be taken away. To prevent this likelihood (from his perspective), he suggests people engage in direct violence. Like right now. Yet, the criteria he uses to define "tyrant" is up for serious debate. Last time I checked, I do not live in Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia, as his imagery on his site (and his imagination) provides. Last time I checked, I am able to purchase a firearm. Last time I checked, I am able to speak my mind in public that opposes gummint policies.

So, are you up for it Dad29 to be a martyr, or are you all talk?

Dad29 said...

You'll note that Mt 5:39 (and all the counsels) address SELF-sacrifice.

That's one thing. Sacrificing one's family or neighbors is not the same.

YOur comparison to Stalin and Hitler is silly. The American Revolution was not about pogroms or prison camps. Or are you not familiar with the Declaration?

A distant and reality-challenged Gummint, such as that of George III, which has deliberately chosen to oppress religious liberty (for starters) and which is actively building and utilizing an electronic Gestapo, while in many other ways acting contrary to the foundational principles of Western (i.e. Judaeo-Christian) civilization is not to be taken lightly.

Try again.

The Joker said...

"YOur comparison to Stalin and Hitler is silly."

It's not MY comparison, it was made by Vanderboegh. He believes that Americans are under communist dictatorship, which is absurd, and therefore advocates violence to overthrow the Marxists in power.

Do you condone people throwing bricks at others in light of Matthew's words? If no, then what is the difference between the actions of Vanderboegh's supporters and those involved in the Occupy movement who engaged in similar behavior?

Wait, V's henchmen, I mean patriots, are more "American" and have "God" on their side compared to other groups. Got it!


"A distant and reality-challenged Gummint, such as that of George III, which has deliberately chosen to oppress religious liberty (for starters) and which is actively building and utilizing an electronic Gestapo."

And, yet, more Nazi imagery.


"...is not to be taken lightly."

Are you going to become a martyr? When are you going to throw your own brick party?

Anonymous said...

"oppress religious liberty"

Huh? How is religious liberty being oppressed?

The Joker said...

"You'll note that Mt 5:39 (and all the counsels) address SELF-sacrifice."

So, Obamacare is such an affront to God that is morally justifiable for Christians to arm themselves with bricks to protect against this legislation being implemented? That EVERY single aspect of this act is an affront to Christianity--an attack!--that it necessitates protective force to save one's family from mortal destruction?

Is this your logic?

Dad29 said...

The HHS reg IS an affront to God and nature.

Moreover, it is a clear violation of the Constitution.

Your line of questioning is typically Leftist--set up a straw man and attack.

It displays the typical un-seriousness and inability to distinguish of the Leftish class.

Try again.

The Joker said...

"Moreover, it is a clear violation of the Constitution".

Last time I checked, the Supreme Court ruled that Obamacare is constitutional.


"The HHS reg IS an affront to God and nature."

So, do you or do you not support Christians arming themselves with bricks to protect against this legislation being implemented?

So, do you agree or not agree that every aspect of Obamacare an affront to Christianity--an attack!--that it necessitates protective force to save one's family from mortal destruction?


Two fairly simple questions to respond to...either yes or no. And, sorry to disappoint, but I'm not a leftist, I'm an American.

Dad29 said...

Yes, you're a Lefty.

The HHS reg is clearly un-Constitutional.

Can you read that? Good.

That's what I wrote the FIRST time.

Americans can read, Lefto.

The Joker said...

"The HHS reg is clearly un-Constitutional."

Perhaps you should get crackin' on that legal challenge.


"Yes, you're a Lefty."

So, anyone questioning your "logic" is automatically a lefty, eh? Sad.


I will ask a third time, perhaps it's the charm.

So, do you or do you not support Christians arming themselves with bricks to protect against this legislation being implemented?

So, do you agree or not agree that every aspect of Obamacare is an affront to Christianity--an attack!--that it necessitates protective force to save one's family from mortal destruction?

In Reason We Trust said...

@ The Joker

Agnostic here. Rest assured I'm ready to water the Tree with the blood of you and the ones you love.

Dad29 said...

Most responsible adults share my view of the Left-O-Wackies (i.e., the Democrat Party):

"People who don’t regularly communicate with the Democratic Party have no idea what a cesspool of hatred that organization is. It has one means, and one means only, of rallying its supporters to contribute money and to vote: that is to personalize every issue, and to demonize every opponent with smears that would make an honest man or woman blush." --PowerLine 4/29/13

Being "American" requires more than residency-by-accident of birth.

Dad29 said...

VanderB has good material!

“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience and are left to the common refuge, which God hath provided for all men, against force and violence.” ~ John Locke, 2nd Treatise on Government.

The self-described "American" should ponder that for a while.

The Joker said...

In Reason We Trust--All talk on your part. Become the martyr or STFU.


Dad29--Most responsible adults do not support Christians arming themselves with bricks to protect against this legislation being implemented. But, so be it if some woman or child is hit in the head. They deserve it, eh?


"People who don’t regularly communicate with the Democratic Party have no idea what a cesspool of hatred that organization is..."

It's called confirmation bias and projection on your part.


"The self-described "American" should ponder that for a while."

I have, and the conditions to which Locke refers to justify retaliation are up for serious debate.

In Reason We Trust said...

Keep deluding yourself, Joker. I'm well-equipped and well-trained, and I'll be the last man standing. If a bunch of jihadi scum couldn't get me, you stand no chance.

Refreshing the Tree with you and yours will be a cakewalk.

Anonymous said...

In Reason (oxymoron, clearly) sounds like a terrorist.

The Joker said...

In Reason We Trust is indeed well-equipped and well-trained. He has a straight jacket and has memorized the safe word as "Mommy".

Anonymous said...

In Reason's tree was watered with the urine of Glenn Beck.