Friday, January 20, 2012

Obozo's War on Religion

Not really surprising at all.

Today, in a huge victory for women’s health, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius announced that most employers will be required to cover contraception in their health plans, along with other preventive services, with no cost-sharing such as co-pays or deductibles.  --Catholic Vote quoting ThinkProgress

OK, jackwad.  You want a war?  Ask the Muslims how they did at Lepanto, or Vienna.

Lawsuit to follow.

50 comments:

Deekaman said...

Sebelius is the Devil incarnate. The headlines all read that the Administration "ruled". I do not recall giving them permission to "rule" over me.

Anonymous said...

......The Catholic Church, to which Sebelius belongs, has not endorsed her, and in early March 2009, Archbishop Raymond F. Burke prefect for the Apostolic Signatura, the Vatican's highest court, declared that Sebelius should not approach the altar for Communion in the United States, and he noted that, "after pastoral admonition, she obstinately persists in serious sin"........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Sebelius

I'm ashamed of the fact that she attended a school I attended also in Cincinnati

Anonymous said...

and you can still get a schoolarship at Xavier University from the Gilligan Family! and look their is a picture of Kathleen!!!

Gilligan Public Service Scholarship

http://www.xavier.edu/americandream/programs/gilligan-scholarship.cfm

James Pawlak said...

You forgot the battles of Chocim, Lvov, Zurawno and Navarino.

Ms. Sebelius was a strong supporter of Dr. George ( TheBaby Killer) Tiller. She might well remember what happened to him.

Anonymous said...

Obama is evil.

President Barack Obama’s Pro-Abortion Record: A Pro-Life Compilation

http://www.lifenews.com/2010/11/07/obamaabortionrecord/

Anonymous said...

Dad29, I need your help digesting this: http://www.jsonline.com/business/wisconsin-lost-3900-privatesector-jobs-in-december-s33s7b4-137686343.html because it doesn't look to me like the DWD report says what the MJS thinks it does. how do we square this with the "Walker creating jobs" line?
email me at dboley@altoona.k12.wi.us please don't let the email address fool you.

Jim said...

Abortion is a legal medical procedure. Any legal, commonly-practiced medical procedure should be covered by insurance. How about we let the doctor and patient decide, not the insurance company or the government? Whatever happened to "personal responsibility"?

James Pawlak said:

Ms. Sebelius was a strong supporter of Dr. George ( TheBaby Killer) Tiller. She might well remember what happened to him.

WTF? I was a big supporter of the courageous Dr. Tiller, too. Should I be looking over my shoulder? Are you one of the murderous nuts out there looking for glory?

Anonymous said...

Jim,

Abortion is MURDER. Plain and simple.
It is Killing an unborn child in the womb,
a person with a Soul.

It is a crime most foul that crys out to heaven.
Forcing us to participate in this genocide is wrong.

The following video is not endorsed nor made by Catholics but it is on the issue of abortion and it shows abortion to be absolutely evil and a genocide

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y2KsU_dhwI

Billiam said...

Courageous? Wow. So you have no problem with late term abortion? Killing babies is courageous? Disgusting. May God have mercy on your soul. The guy who murdered Tiller was wrong. That said, to defend that practice. Despicable.

Amy said...

I was a big supporter of the courageous Dr. Tiller, too.

Yes...courageously saving the world from innocent babies. Something I wouldn't brag about, Jim.

Late-term abortions are never necessary. We used to have a term for them before the "pro-choice" crowd and their euphemisms got involved: homicide.

How about we let the doctor and patient decide, not the insurance company or the government?

Then how about letting the patient -- and not a religious body that morally objects to the procedure -- PAY for it? You can't demand someone fund something that's immoral and then get whiny when people object.

He who has the gold makes the rules and all that.

It'd be like making the NAACP pay for medical care for the KKK, in case you need a politically-correct reference...since the whole concept of "religious freedom" seems lost on liberals.

Jim said...

Anon: Abortion is MURDER. Plain and simple.

In your opinion, perhaps. In my opinion it is not. Legally it is not. A majority of people believe that abortion should be legal even while believing that abortion is "the taking of a life". Since murder is an illegal taking of life, and abortions are legal, and most people believe they should be legal, it is NOT "plain and simple". A majority of people disagree with you.

You are in the minority.

Billiam:

I have no problem whatsoever with late term abortions if a woman and her doctor believe it is the best thing to do given her circumstances. I believe in personal responsibility.

Courageous? You betcha! Providing a VERY RARE and LEGAL medical procedure to women with extremely limited access to the service in the face of threats to his life? Courageous is very appropriate.

He did not kill babies. He terminated pregnancies.

I find YOUR opinion just as disgusting as I'm sure you find mind.

May God have mercy on your soul.

And on yours for wanting to deny women legal, life-saving medical services. Despicable.

Anonymous said...

Jim,

I suggest reading anything written by Janet e. Smith
on contraception, abortion and the Church to get a better understanding of the Churches position on the subject.

Contraception: Why not?

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0002.html


Here is the link to Janets website with listing of other articles...

http://www.aodonline.org/SHMS/Faculty+5819/Janet+Smith+9260/Dr.+Janet+Smith+-+Published+Articles.htm

Jim said...

Something I wouldn't brag about, Jim.

Why? Are you coming after me, too? I wasn't bragging. I was stating a fact, and I'm not ashamed or afraid to say it.

Late-term abortions are never necessary.

That is your opinion and it's not based on your medical expertise, I'm sure.

We used to have a term for them before the "pro-choice" crowd and their euphemisms got involved: homicide.

I don't believe that late term abortions were historically ever referred to as "homicides" except by the fringe.

Then how about letting the patient -- and not a religious body that morally objects to the procedure -- PAY for it?

If the patient pays for their insurance, they ARE paying for it. If a person works for a religious organization, the organization can pay their employee the organization's share of the insurance cost as long as they allow the employee to participate in the group plan. OK?

It'd be like making the NAACP pay for medical care for the KKK, in case you need a politically-correct reference

They already do so it's not a valid comparison.

Billiam said...

Just because something is legal doesn't make it right. Partial birth lifesaving? You amaze me.

Anonymous said...

Jim,
41% of Pregnancies end in Abortion in NYC
Its not Rare by anymenas, Please listen to Fr. Barron

"Fr. Barron comments on Abortion: Shocking Numbers out of New York"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sski0eebAAo

Jim said...

I suggest reading anything written by Janet e. Smith
on contraception, abortion and the Church to get a better understanding of the Churches position on the subject.


I haven't the slightest interest in what Janet e. Smith, you or the Pope has to say about contraception and abortion.

I'm not a Catholic. I will never be a Catholic. I love Catholics. Some of my best friends are Catholics. And none of them have more than 1 or 2 kids. Wow! How did that happen?

I don't have any problem with what the Catholic Church wants it's flock to believe about contraception or abortion. The fact is that both are legal and as far as non-Catholics are concerned, it's none of the Church's business.

Jim said...

Partial birth lifesaving?

Partial birth is a made up term. Late term abortions are often performed to save the life or preserve the health of the mother. How's that for amazing.

I didn't say that abortions are rare. I said late term abortions are rare.

I'm well aware that a very high number of pregnancies are terminated. It's obviously an accepted an acceptable alternative by millions of women and doctors even if you don't.

I wish there were fewer abortions. But unfortunately people like Janet E. Smith and Fr. Barron want to deny women the most effective means of preventing abortion.

Ironic, isn't it.

Billiam said...

Sorry, but the way it's been described, I don't buy the save the mother bit. Not when you deliver most of the baby, then kill it. Apparently, for Tiller, it wasn't rare.

Dan said...

Of course, many abortions are done by poor minorities. Further, Planned Parenthood was founded by an avowed racist. Planned Parenthood continues to this day to encourage minorities to get abortions.
To me, those who support abortion and planned Parenthood are also the kind of people who are racist.

Anonymous said...

Jim,
Do you consider your Children to be a blessing from God? Do you have Children?


Catechism Connection: Children Are a Blessing from God

“Sacred Scripture and the Church’s traditional practice see in large families a sign of God’s blessing and the parents’ generosity.” Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2373
Psalm 127:3-5

“Behold sons are a gift from the Lord; the fruit of the womb is a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the sons of one’s youth. Happy the man whose quiver is filled with them; they shall not be put to shame when they contend with the enemies at the gate.”
Psalm 128:1-4

“Happy are those who fear the Lord, who walk in his ways! For you shall eat the fruit of your handiwork; happy shall you be, and favored. Your wife shall be like a fruitful vine in the recesses of your home; your children like olive plants around your table. Behold, thus is the man blessed who fears the Lord.”
Exodus 23:25-26

“The Lord, your God, you shall worship; then I will bless your food and drink, and I will remove all sickness from your midst; no woman in your land will be barren or miscarry; and I will give you a full span of life.”
Deuteronomy 7:13-14

“As your reward for heeding these decrees and observing them carefully, the Lord, your God, will keep with you the merciful covenant which he promised on oath to your fathers. He will love and bless and multiply you; he will bless the fruit of your womb.. You will be blessed above all peoples; no man or woman among you shall be childless..”

Jim said...

the way it's been described, I don't buy the save the mother bit. Not when you deliver most of the baby, then kill it. Apparently, for Tiller, it wasn't rare.

The method of the procedure has no relevance as to whether or not the intent is to save the life or health of the mother. It is up to the doctor to determine the manner by which the pregnancy is terminated.

Apparently, for Tiller, it wasn't rare.

And for George Bush, trips to Crawford weren't rare either, but it was the only place he could go to be "home". Of course it wasn't rare for Tiller. He was the only one to provide the service in the state, so people who required the service went to him.

Of course, many abortions are done by [sic] poor minorities.

Yes, because rearing children is very expensive. Would you rather they be on food stamps?

Planned Parenthood was founded by an avowed racist.

Irrelevant. The founder was against abortion and no abortions were performed at Planned Parenthood prior to her death. BTW, most States below the Mason-Dixon Line were founded by racists.

Planned Parenthood continues to this day to encourage minorities to get abortions.

Prove it.

To me, those who support abortion and planned Parenthood are also the kind of people who are racist.

You are welcome to your opinion. Here's mine. Anybody who would hold that position is ignorant.

Anon:

Do you consider your Children to be a blessing from God? Do you have Children?

Of course and yes.

Thanks for the verses. I own and read several Bibles and attend church regularly.

What is your point?

Anonymous said...

Jim,

We have a right to voice our opinion and so does the Catholic Church. I agree with the Pope on this.

BENEDICT XVI'S ADDRESS TO US BISHOPS ON 'AD LIMINA' VISIT

"The Legitimate Separation of Church and State Cannot Be Taken to Mean That the Church Must Be Silent"

Read more at:

http://www.zenit.org/article-34148?l=english

Jim said...

Anon:

I agree completely.

Anonymous said...

I think people need to realize what exactly has been the history of the Roman Catholic Church's teaching on abortion. There seems to be contradictions abound.

liberalslikechrist.org/Catholic/abortionteaching.html

neomom said...

If the life of the mother was truly "at risk",then why on earth would you select a process that takes several days to perform like a late term abortion? No, if the mother's life was truly at risk, you would perform a cesarean section and save both lives.

Personal responsibility is not getting pregnant in the first place if you don't want a baby, not killing it.

Jim said...

If the life of the mother was truly "at risk",then why on earth would you select a process that takes several days to perform like a late term abortion?

That would be a determination of the doctor, not you. There is nothing about "at risk" that means the patient must be rushed to a hospital to have the procedure or die.

if the mother's life was truly at risk, you would perform a cesarean section

That would be the determination of the doctor and her patient, not you.

Personal responsibility is not getting pregnant in the first place if you don't want a baby

But if you can't use contraception, what do you do? Or are you a Sex Nazi?

No sex for you!

Anonymous said...

Jim, there is NO "medically" good reason for late-term abortions. You know it, I know it, and med-school studebts know it.

Your "Doctor Excuse" is pure BS. But you'll believe it because that's what you WANT to believe.

OK.

Anonymous said...

All women who have abortions should have to do what the Santorums did: Take the fetus home to show the family. That will have people thinking twice about using these health plans.

Let's coalesce around Newt baby!

neomom said...

Jim, are you honestly trying to say that women can't use one of the plethora of contraception options available to them in the US.. And you are calling that personal responsibility?

Because it is infinitely more responsible to just kill the baby. Especially if it's viable, right?

Jim said...

Mom, mom, mom. In the above thread I was treated to suggested readings from the Catholic Church. Those readings affirmed the Church's opposition to contraception. It was to this that I was referring when I wrote about not being able to use contraception. So no, I was not honestly or otherwise suggesting that women can't use contraception. Only Catholic women.

Jim, there is NO "medically" good reason for late-term abortions. You know it, I know it, and med-school studebts know it.

I do not know it. You do not know it. Med students do not know it. I trust in doctors and the hippocratic oath. I don't believe that the doctors who perform about 600 (that's 1 per state per month, BTW) late term abortions a year are doing so for the convenience of their patients or for the money.

Why are you arguing about late term abortions in the first place. An abortion is an abortion isn't it?

All women who have abortions should have to do what the Santorums did

A jar of tissue? Good luck getting that passed, weirdo.

But you'll believe it because that's what you WANT to believe.

By what motive would I "want" to believe it?

Anonymous said...

Jim, Grasp this fact.
As a tax payer & Christian I simply refuse to pay this.

$451 - The average bounty for an unborn child

http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/politicalcalculations/2012/01/20/the_volume_pricing_of_abortion_135_million_for_planned_parenthood

Jim said...

Anon: I grasp just fine. You can refuse to pay whatever you want. And you can face the consequences. I think you call it "personal responsibility".

The "bounty" thing is silly nonsense.

$451 would be the price of discount dental crown, but mostly dentists do check ups and fillings.

What's your point?

neomom said...

A child is generally considered viable now at 24 weeks even though younger than that have survived. If the mother wanted the child, she would deliver and try to save it along with herself.

The entire premise of killing the child in an abortion after 24 weeks to "save" the mother is specious.

Jim said...

If the mother wanted the child, she would deliver and try to save it along with herself.

You don't know that. You have no way of knowing that.

The entire premise of killing the child in an abortion after 24 weeks to "save" the mother is specious.

That may be your opinion but you have no actual evidence to support it.

You know that thing about keeping the government out of the doctor/patient relationship? That would go for the neighbor, too.

What does it matter what the procedure is, how many weeks old the fetus is or its viability? An abortion is an abortion, isn't it?

Anonymous said...

Tell me Jim

At what point is the soul present?

At Conception? At two weeks?

At 4 months? At Birth?

Perhaps it is finally present at 5 years of age?

At what time is a human being, a human being?

At what point is killing a unborn child murder?

Jim said...

At what point is the soul present?

I don't know. Neither do you.

At what time is a human being, a human being?

I don't know. Neither do you.

At what point is killing a unborn child murder?

Never. Unless perhaps the mother intended to carry the fetus to full term and someone maliciously prevented that.

You all are missing the point.

You. Will. Never. Stop. Abortion.

You can only make them more dangerous for women. If your goal is to make it more dangerous in order to discourage women from having sex, then you are sick and waging a tragic and losing war.

Deekaman said...

"If your goal is to make it more dangerous in order to discourage women from having sex, then you are sick and waging a tragic and losing war."

No, what is sick and tragic, Jimmy-Boy is that you think the death of a viable child for the convenience of the mother is OK.

Jim said...

I never said any such thing, Pokemon. Straw man city here today.

Abortion is not a good thing. I wish abortion never happened.

It. Doesn't. Matter.

Women will always have sex.

Women will always have unwanted pregnancies.

There will always be women who want to terminate their pregnancies
and are determined to do so.

There will always be people willing to provide that service.

You will never stop any of that. Never. It's simple.

It doesn't matter about souls. It doesn't matter about viability. It doesn't matter what the pope says. It doesn't matter about convenience. It doesn't matter what happens in Philadelphia.

What matters is that a woman who CHOOSES and is determined to terminate her pregnancy should have a safe, legal means of doing so.

Anonymous said...

Jim

Here is a story of a man who saw abortion first hand in China and it changed him. It is a story of how God works miricles in all of our lives.

Jim, I will pray for you. I will pray often. I will repent. I will ask others to pray for you too. I will Pray "Hard" as Dad suggests

Steve Mosher: A Vision of 'Hell' Brought Him to the Church His story reveals why the New Evangelization draws its strength from the Church’s pro-life witness.


http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/steve-mosher-a-vision-of-hell-brought-me-to-the-church/

Jim said...

Anon: Thanks for the prayers. But I am a Lutheran Missouri Synod, read my Bible and attend church regularly.

You apparently are not reading what I am writing here. You can pray for me, but my soul is not in danger as far as this topic is concerned.

I don't like abortion. I don't "support" abortion. I don't advocate abortion.

I don't like a cold, winter rain either, but I'm never, EVER going to stop it from happening.

No one will ever stop abortions. They can only make them more dangerous. As a christian, I want to lessen that danger.

You can pray until the Tribulation and it won't stop abortions unless God strikes all women barren.

neomom said...

You are in no way shape or form a faithful member of the LCMS. Because we absolutely believe that abortion abhorrent.

While I certainly don't believe there to be any difference between killing a child at 10 weeks or 30 weeks gestation. There is a huge difference in whether or not that child can live without being in the womb. Therefore killing a viable baby, is as henious an act as what "Dr." Gosnell did with severing their spinal cords after they had unfortunately been born alive.

And there are physicians that do say that there is no medical reason for a late term abortion to save the life of the mother. If the child is viable, it is no more dangerous to deliver it alive than dead whether via labor and delivery or surgically.

Jim said...

You are in no way shape or form a faithful member of the LCMS. Because we absolutely believe that abortion abhorrent.

And you are in so way shape or form in a position to judge my faith. I've never said that abortion wasn't abhorrent. Sorry I didn't use your approved language. But I did use my very own words above when I said:

Abortion is not a good thing. I wish abortion never happened.

there are physicians that do say that there is no medical reason for a late term abortion to save the life of the mother.

And obviously there are physicians who disagree.

If the child is viable, it is no more dangerous to deliver it alive than dead whether via labor and delivery or surgically.

Can you point me to any sources where a doctor has faced ethics charges by his peers for performing a late term abortion?

But that's beside the point. If you believe that life begins at conception, an abortion is an abortion. So why the hang up on the late term variety?

neomom said...

Because late term is an even worse degree of the crime.

And that you have said that you are ok with abortion being a legal medical procedure is a very clear indication that you do not believe in the teachings of your church.... You want to pick their doctrine as if off a menu.... You would probably fit in better with the Methodists.

Jim said...

a very clear indication that you do not believe in the teachings of your church

You are in no position to judge what I believe regarding the teachings of my church.

You may not believe this, but not everyone in this nation is a member of your church or mine.

At this time, abortion is a legal medical procedure. Because I care about women, I want it to stay that way. Making abortions illegal will not stop women from having them. It will only make it riskier for them to have them.

neomom said...

Murder should not be a legal medical procedure.

You believe you care about the women, but you certainly don't care about the children. How many of those are aborted just because they are girls? Or have Down Syndrome, or Spina Bifida. Our church teaches us to care fore the least of those among us..

Moloch

Jim said...

Murder should not be a legal medical procedure.

Kind of a nonsensical statement. What should murder be?

but you certainly don't care about the children

What do my words "Abortion is not a good thing. I wish abortion never happened." mean to you?

How many of those are aborted just because they are girls?

I have no idea and neither do you. I doubt it is very many. Maybe the same as for boys. That's not relevant.

I don't know and I don't care. The why of an abortion is not relevant. If a woman is desperate enough to want an abortion she will get one. It doesn't matter why. Why would it matter to you. An abortion is an abortion. Isn't it?

Dad29 said...

Abortion is an intrinsic evil, not merely a 'bad thing.'

While you are probably right that abortions will be procured no matter, in a rightly-ordered society they should be illegal.

You ought to be concerned about the society's order. Facilitating, or excusing the act by claiming "legal and safe" is wrong, Jim.

neomom said...

What should murder be?

Illegal.

Not facilitated.

Anonymous said...

Blah blah blah

Jim said...

You can say that again.