Wednesday, November 28, 2007

Offended?

From a Folkbum combox:

they're open to the idea that a cosmic Jewish zombie removed the evil forces from our souls that were placed there when a woman created from a rib took an apple from a talking snake. Or something like that. I can't image that that many people that went to Harvard business school and whatnot actually believe that though.

That enlightened bit of maryjane-fueled 'understanding' from a poster who asks for "more respect" from your humble scribe here:

But whatever Daddio29, you’re obviously narrow-minded and brainwashed. I see little hope for you.

And:

Dad29 isn’t a very nice guy, to say the least. I’m not going to refrain from calling stupid points he makes stupid

This is what passes for 'tolerant, enlightened' comments from the BumperStickerKissers.

14 comments:

capper said...

Dad-

If you follow JIJAWM's comments around the blogosphere, you would note that he also thinks the bumper sticker issue is silly. He was looking for one conservative to admit the hypocrisy of their position.

And I would be leery of condemning others for being snarky. You have been snarky towards me on more than one occasion. Not that I'm complaining. I'm a big boy and can hold my own.

Dad29 said...

The point, Capper, is that JJetc. is unable/unwilling to carry on a rational discourse.

Sure, I'm snarky. But I'm willing to argue merits, and not begin from a ridiculous and uninformed position.

PaulNoonan said...

The point, Capper, is that JJetc. is unable/unwilling to carry on a rational discourse.

Haaaaa! hahaahha! Oh, stop it, you're killing me.

But I'm willing to argue merits,

HAAAAAAHAHAHH! Oh, oh, c'mon man. You made me spit coffee on my computer. I just need a second to calm down and...

and not begin from a ridiculous and uninformed position.

BWAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA. OK, OK, you're funny.

That bumper sticker wasn't parody, but this...this is some great parody.

JesusIsJustAlrightWithMe said...

"That enlightened bit of maryjane-fueled 'understanding' from a poster who asks for "more respect" from your humble scribe here:"

I haven't danced with maryjane in quite some time. But you seem like a few bong-rips would improve your atitude a great deal. And my statement showed a great deal of understanding of the relevant issues in that post. And I never asked for your respect. Honestly, I think you're kind of a dick, so I don't really care what level of respect you give me. However, I will show you the same level of respect that you show me. That was all I said.

"This is what passes for 'tolerant, enlightened' comments from the BumperStickerKissers."

I don't know who you're quoting there becaus I never claimed to be tolerant of stupid ideas. And I think the originatl COEXIST bumper sticker is lame. So is McMahon's parody.

"The point, Capper, is that JJetc. is unable/unwilling to carry on a rational discourse.

Sure, I'm snarky. But I'm willing to argue merits, and not begin from a ridiculous and uninformed position."

Although Paul summed up my reaction to this comment pretty well, I'd just like to add that, from what I've read, you seem to base every argument you make on Catholicism. By definition, faith is the antithesis of reason. Faith is believing something without proof. Therefore, you always begin from an irrational position. In contrast, my policy positions are all based on logical and reasonable interpretations and extrapolations from available data and evidence. I always back up my point, and you know that.

Dad29 said...

The Lippy Libertarian Lefty Lawyer chimes in with what passes for humor in the Hillary campaign.

JIJetc. concedes my point and then wanders off the reservation ...again.

Heh.

JesusIsJustAlrightWithMe said...

Your point is that I treat you like you treat me? Not much of a point. So why did you add in all that other irrelevant crap?

BTW, how is Paul both a "libertarian" and a "lefty"?

Amy said...

Faith and reason go hand in hand, JIJAWM.

You can possess both. Just because Dad29 (and others, like me) come at the world from a Catholic perspective does not mean our points are wrong or our reasoning faulty.

We've got 2000+ years of lasting faith that shows people have found the Catholic faith, reason, and proof to coexist perfectly.

JesusIsJustAlrightWithMe said...

"Just because Dad29 (and others, like me) come at the world from a Catholic perspective does not mean our points are wrong or our reasoning faulty."

It doesn't make your points wrong, but it most definately does make your reasoning faulty. Since, by definition, you didn't come to them using reason. You came to them by extrapolating something you believe as a matter of faith.

"We've got 2000+ years of lasting faith that shows people have found the Catholic faith, reason, and proof to coexist perfectly."

Well, no you don't. And if you do, the ancient Greeks could say the same thing about their Gods and their reason. But eventually we started regarding their gods as being unreasonable.

PaulNoonan said...

Lefties are socialist/communist types. On the political spectrum you would have to consider me centrist as I tend to agree with (ugh) "righty" fiscal policy (as espoused if not practiced) and "lefty" social policy. Don't call me a lefty.

Amy, I would agree that one can be both reasonable and Catholic, however those ideas that stem from Catholicism cannot be considered reasonable if Catholic doctrine is all that supports them. Not killing is reasonable, but for reasons entirely separate from its inclusion in the Decalogue.

Belief comes from faith, and faith has and requires no evidence. If faith acquires evidence it is no longer faith, and becomes subject to the inquiries and tests of this world.

Let's not go calling it reason.

Dad29 said...

Lefty social policy makes you a Liberal, unless that 'leftism' coincides with right order.

Those who have become Catholic later in life arrived at the Church's door by reasoning (e.g., Chesterton, Fr. Neuhaus, et al.)

And right reason supports every single Catholic doctrine (not to be confused with disciplines, and CERTAINLY not to be confused with individual Catholics who are, ah..., confused or evil.)

Thus, while it requires faith to be a Catholic (or believer of almost any sort,) it is by no means irrational; in fact, Chesterton referred to the Church as "the Church of Common Sense"--reasonably speaking.

JesusIsJustAlrightWithMe said...

"Those who have become Catholic later in life arrived at the Church's door by reasoning (e.g., Chesterton, Fr. Neuhaus, et al.)"

Eh, I have a hard time buying that. I don't know jack about Chesterton or Neuhaus, but I have a hard time believing anybody could objectively look at the data around them and reasonable conclude that there's an invisible man in the sky that is concerned about whether or not we eat oisters. I mean, I can see how someone could think there's something else "out there," but I just can't see how anyone could conclude that all that other crap is true using reason.

"And right reason supports every single Catholic doctrine"

Well, like, maybe that's just your opinion, man.

"Chesterton referred to the Church as "the Church of Common Sense""

Now that I have learned something about Chesterton, I can conclude that Chesterton once said at least one total nonsense statement about Catholocism.

PaulNoonan said...

As you advocate lefty economic drivel, you are more of a lefty than I will ever be.

Dad29, could you give an example of some of the "reason" that these folks have used to come to the church?

John Foust said...

Dad, seems like you took the most offense to JesusIsJustAlrightWithMe's rewording of Christian Just-So stories. Why so? Never heard that kind of ridicule before?

Dad29 said...

John F: generally speaking, I'm with polite company.

Paul: Chesterton wrote about his experience (in allegory) in a book called "Orthodoxy," prior to his conversion to RC.

Fr. Neuhaus (First Things) may have written extensively about his conversion--I don't know about that; however, his brief comments on the matter (in FT and other venues) were the basis for my comments.

JIJ: Don't know from GKC or Fr. Neuhaus? That's interesting--and describes a deprivation in your intellectual curiosity.