tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post8230051534267532291..comments2024-03-18T18:30:39.000-05:00Comments on Dad29: SS,DD: Obozo "Compromises" With No Change at AllDad29http://www.blogger.com/profile/08554276286736923821noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-15278600812449138122012-02-14T23:26:12.433-06:002012-02-14T23:26:12.433-06:00I find it more disturbing that 45% of the populati...<i>I find it more disturbing that 45% of the population find it preferable to kill a viable child </i><br /><br />I'm sure you would, but I can't find anywhere that that notion is supported by research. Being pro-choice doesn't automatically determine your position on late term abortions. And I think most of them would consider the choice as terminating a pregnancy and not killing a child.<br /><br /><i>That you would even bring race into this is despicable. </i><br /><br />Your opinion is noted. However, race, as you've pointed out, is quite relevant. There is more than one side to the trans racial adoption issue.<br /><br />The anti-choice side brings race into the discussion all the time. Isn't it mostly black "babies" being aborted at Planned Parenthood? I mean, it's the eugenics, right? All those PPs placed in the black neighborhoods in order to kill off the black populations? Oh, wait, those are the people the libruls want to flourish so they'll vote Democrat. Which is it?<br /><br />I find it disturbing that people would force women to give birth in order to provide babies to adoptive parents.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10004209843701697773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-78329995614043644162012-02-14T18:44:58.965-06:002012-02-14T18:44:58.965-06:00In 2010, in that same Gallup poll 47% identified a...In 2010, in that same Gallup poll 47% identified as pro life.<br /><br />That you would even bring race into this is despicable. <br /><br />In the US the black community has actively worked to prevent white families from adopting black children out of foster care under the meme of cultural genocide. It still happens but far less frequently and it takes much longer.<br /><br />Do you know what it takes to adopt a child internationally? Years, trips abroad, weeks spent in those countries, and fees of about $20k on top of all that. And now several countries have either stopped these adoptions or severely limited them. Haiti and Guatemala being two that come to mind. <br /><br />I find it more disturbing that 45% of the population find it preferable to kill a viable child than to let that child live and through adoption still relieve the womb owner of the burdens of motherhood. I mean she got it to the point of viability on her own...neomomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04830635556787370135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-3319005166412419052012-02-13T23:42:45.440-06:002012-02-13T23:42:45.440-06:00Ooops, you're right, I should have read more c...Ooops, you're right, I should have read more closely. Still, I don't see the number for pro-life. Most polls include undecided or unsure.<br /><br />Still 45% is a large block.<br /><br /><i>I find it tremendously disturbing that you find it perfectly OK to kill a viable baby in utero</i><br /><br />I'm sorry you find it so disturbing even though I never said that.<br /><br />I find it similarly disturbing that you insist that 45% or more of your fellow Americans should be bound by your experiences and beliefs and not by the law and their own convictions.<br /><br /><i>It is a level of selfishness that I truly cannot even wrap my brain around.</i><br /><br />There are millions of children all over the world available for adoption. They may not be white, they may not be newborn, they may have troubled lives.<br /><br />I find it an amazing level of selfishness that people insist that women are expected to provide fresh, newborns to people who are not willing to adopt and care for the already born. Thousands of African-American children in this country alone are waiting to be adopted. Or aren't those lives precious?Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10004209843701697773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-91092933894468666702012-02-13T23:22:21.614-06:002012-02-13T23:22:21.614-06:00Jim, the 45% were the pro choice folks. That woul...Jim, the 45% were the pro choice folks. That would put the majority at pro life.<br /><br />I find it tremendously disturbing that you find it perfectly OK to kill a viable baby in utero instead of allowing life and adoption for that child. It is a level of selfishness that I truly cannot even wrap my brain around. How can the thinking even exist that this should be an acceptable proposition.neomomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04830635556787370135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-31211068733908975022012-02-13T22:55:35.118-06:002012-02-13T22:55:35.118-06:00Mom, you said that the "majority" of you...Mom, you said that the "majority" of young women are "pro-life" but then you provide the number 45% with is not a majority and it doesn't take into account people who are "pro-life" yet think abortion should be safe and legal.<br /><br /><i>There is no reason to kill the baby if it is viable. None. </i><br /><br />In your opinion, not everyone's.<br /><br /><i>If the child can live outside the womb, the rights of the woman to no longer be pregnant do not usurp the rights of the child to live.</i><br /><br />And this is which section of the US Code? Or is it your opinion. It is not mine.<br /><br /><i>It is not standard "medical care" or "women's health".</i><br /><br />Really? Ask the woman or her doctor.<br /><br /><i>It still haunts him and he believes it still haunts her.</i><br /><br />I'm sorry for them. Not everyone has the same experience though.<br /><br /><i>sometimes we make enormous mistakes.</i><br /><br />And sometimes we make the right decision.<br /><br /><i>Nope. There is truth, and not-truth. Not "your" truth and "my" truth.</i><br /><br />It makes me feel so warm and fuzzy that I have YOU as arbiter of truth and not-truth.<br /><br /><i>As to your dismissal of killing some</i><br /><br />I did no such thing.<br /><br />I hear the bells. The Bells of Rhymney. (love that song!)Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10004209843701697773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-63842793918323061982012-02-13T21:27:19.199-06:002012-02-13T21:27:19.199-06:00You can decide for yourself. Others can decide for...<i>You can decide for yourself. Others can decide for themselves.</i><br /><br />Nope. There is truth, and not-truth. Not "your" truth and "my" truth.<br /><br />As to your dismissal of killing some--you and John Donne would not get along well, either; "...each is a part of the main, a piece of the clod/ So do not ask for whom the bell tolls/ It tolls for thee."Dad29https://www.blogger.com/profile/08554276286736923821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-63156722482626465592012-02-13T19:19:37.409-06:002012-02-13T19:19:37.409-06:00My husband had a girlfriend that got pregnant seve...My husband had a girlfriend that got pregnant several years before we met. He insisted she abort even though she didn't really want to. It still haunts him and he believes it still haunts her.<br /><br />Life happens, and sometimes we make enormous mistakes.neomomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04830635556787370135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-71165338725055401222012-02-13T19:15:27.405-06:002012-02-13T19:15:27.405-06:00Gallup doesn't have it broke out by age, but i...Gallup doesn't have it broke out by age, but in 2010, only 45% claimed the label of "Pro Choice". But the trend has been toward Pro Life. I can tell you that from my younger sister's perspective it is because she was a post-Roe baby. She is 10 years behind the other 5 of us and our mother was in her 40s. They could have easily made that "choice" and she knows it. My own conversion came when I became pregnant with my first child.<br /><br />There is no reason to kill the baby if it is viable. None. <br /><br />If the child can live outside the womb, the rights of the woman to no longer be pregnant do not usurp the rights of the child to live.<br /><br />It is not standard "medical care" or "women's health".<br /><br />If one of the standard bearers of abortion rights can see that...neomomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04830635556787370135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-38664386819739893222012-02-13T19:04:24.945-06:002012-02-13T19:04:24.945-06:00Billiam,
I know a gal I used to date who had an a...Billiam,<br /><br /><i>I know a gal I used to date who had an abortion about 2 years after we stopped seeing each other. She was so sure at the time it was for the best.</i><br /><br />I had a similar circumstance. We were together for 4 years. I know she had an abortion before we were together and I helped her when she got one a year after. It sometimes crosses my mind that it's possible she had an abortion while we were together. But I don't dwell on it. What's the point. I assume she didn't and so be it. I got married and had two great kids. She also got married and had a great kid. I doubt she considers herself scarred for life. If she hadn't had that abortion, the child she had would never have been born. If I had had a child with her, I would have missed the wonderful family that I have now. What a shame that would have been!<br /><br />People often do things in that they reflect on later in life, sometimes regretting what they did, sometimes happy they made the choice they did. People should be capable of making those decisions.<br /><br />Life happens.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10004209843701697773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-17669572620640599302012-02-13T18:53:52.563-06:002012-02-13T18:53:52.563-06:00OK, nice post. No generalizations about "lib...OK, nice post. No generalizations about "libruls" and no Obama hating. I appreciate that.<br /><br /><i>As far as limits on abortion go, I'm willing to take a stepped approach.</i><br /><br />That is sensible and I applaud that as reasonable. That said, most pro-choicers would say, "What next?" Many would compromise if it stopped there. But it never does. That's why they fight every step of the way. When they know the pro-lifers will never be satisfied, there is no incentive to compromise.<br /><br />I would like to see your figures on what percent of young women are pro-life. I'm leery. And I'm leery about how many consider themselves "pro-life" but favor keeping abortion legal.<br /><br />I also would submit, that in this country, the incidence of gender abortions is extremely rare and could never be proved in any case.<br /><br />I would further submit that the incidence of post-viability abortions does not justify banning all of them.<br /><br />As to Francis Kissling, I agree with some of it.<br /><br /><i>It may not have a right to life, and its value may not be equal to that of the pregnant woman, but ending the life of a fetus is not a morally insignificant event…</i><br /><br />Totally agree. And I doubt that more than a few women consider an abortion as a morally insignificant event.<br /><br /><i>Abortion is not merely a medical matter, and there is an unintended coarseness to claiming that it is.</i><br /><br />Agreed, but I believe the majority of women are capable of understanding this and making their choice based on the morals to which they subscribe.<br /><br /><i>We need to firmly and clearly reject post-viability abortions except in extreme cases</i><br /><br />Who is to judge and who is to adjudicate what is an extreme case? I think post-viability abortions for matters of "convenience" are very rare and we shouldn't ban them all to keep a few from happening. It should be up to the patient and her doctor as to what is extreme, not a district attorney.<br /><br /><i>They rightly protect all of our interests in women’s health and fetal life</i><br /><br />Who is "our" interests? Shouldn't it be the interests of the woman and her family?Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10004209843701697773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-77755414257501161542012-02-13T18:13:46.312-06:002012-02-13T18:13:46.312-06:00Not just abortion, but why people do things that s...Not just abortion, but why people do things that scar for life, like molestation, beatings, etc. As I say, it haunts me.Billiamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15489132492383133253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-66044804139231260212012-02-13T18:12:14.192-06:002012-02-13T18:12:14.192-06:00Of course I feel the same. I'm trying to under...Of course I feel the same. I'm trying to understand why you, and those who agree with you, think that way. I have never been able to stop asking why. I know a gal I used to date who had an abortion about 2 years after we stopped seeing each other. She was so sure at the time it was for the best. Yet, it's haunted her ever since, you know, what might have been? I'm haunted by a similar thing. It's why I want to understand.Billiamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15489132492383133253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-37959891350004176922012-02-13T16:42:50.699-06:002012-02-13T16:42:50.699-06:00Believe it or not I am relatively moderate on soci...Believe it or not I am relatively moderate on social issues, except abortion and playing around with embryos for medical research and cloning.<br /><br />As far as limits on abortion go, I'm willing to take a stepped approach. Starting with ending it for viable babies and gender selection. We'll keep going from there. But know this, the majority of young women are pro life. Good luck finding any pictures of the March for Life, but it was huge, it was enthusiastic, and it was young.<br /><br />But here is Francis Kissling, Founding President of the National Abortion Federation...<br /><br />We can no longer pretend the fetus is invisible. We can no longer seek to banish the state from our lives, but rather need to engage its power to improve women’s lives. We must end the fiction that an abortion at 26 weeks is no different from one at 6 weeks.<br />These are not compromises or mere strategic concessions, they are a necessary evolution. The positions we have taken up to now are inadequate for the questions of the 21st century….<br />The fetus is more visible than ever before, and the abortion-rights movement needs to accept its existence and its value. It may not have a right to life, and its value may not be equal to that of the pregnant woman, but ending the life of a fetus is not a morally insignificant event…. Abortion is not merely a medical matter, and there is an unintended coarseness to claiming that it is.<br />We need to firmly and clearly reject post-viability abortions except in extreme cases….<br />Those kinds of regulations are not anti-woman or unduly invasive. They rightly protect all of our interests in women’s health and fetal life….neomomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04830635556787370135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-72354229090650305202012-02-13T16:29:07.126-06:002012-02-13T16:29:07.126-06:00Billiam,
Thanks again for you civility.
How can ...Billiam,<br /><br />Thanks again for you civility.<br /><br /><i>How can it not cheapen life, if it's so easy to dismiss the humanity and worthiness of a life in the womb?</i><br /><br />I'm sure very few women simply "dismiss the humanity of a life in the womb." I've known several women who have had abortions. Not one took it lightly. As Mom says, they had things to "consider". They considered them, weighed the choices, and then made decisions.<br /><br />You and I disagree. I will not be converted to your philosophy nor you to mine. We see things in a different way, and yet I don't think any less of you or how you feel.<br /><br />I hope you feel the same of me.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10004209843701697773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-53256400509823721972012-02-13T16:12:24.854-06:002012-02-13T16:12:24.854-06:00Most people don't consider abortion as "k...Most people don't consider abortion as "killing your offspring".<br /><br /><i>Just like promiscuity cheapens love.</i> Sometimes.<br /><br /><i>Or adultery cheapens marriage.</i> Much more so than same-sex marriage ever could.<br /><br /><i>A woman's "choice" of what to do with her body happens before conception.</i><br /><br />Not all agree with this. I don't.<br /><br /><i>And there are many, many very inexpensive options out there that can be used to prevent said conception. That doesn't mean No Sex either, but you already know that. </i><br /><br />Not according to Dad. Sex of any kind outside of marriage for any purpose other than procreation is a perversion according to Dad.<br /><br /><i>Once there is another human...involved, it isn't all about her anymore. There is more to consider.</i><br /><br />And I'm sure each and every woman considers every bit of that more. It's really not your business.<br /><br /><i>As technology has advanced, the whole "mass of tissue" argument gets thinner and thinner, so now it is to maintain the growing child as something other than human.</i><br /><br />Are we raising 2-week old embryos outside the womb now? Of course not. This when the embryo is viable stuff is irrelevant. If it were then abortions would be OK with you prior to viability. But an abortion is an abortion isn't it?<br /><br />Nobody denies that a human embryo is human. What is questionable is when it is a human being. This question has been around for millenia and it still is unanswered. Scalia said that embryos and fetuses are not provided the "rights" of a breathing, "walking-around" person.<br /><br />You can decide for yourself. Others can decide for themselves.<br /><br /><i>Your natural miscarriage question doesn't even rise to the level of a straw man.</i><br /><br />Of course it doesn't because it doesn't fit your argument. "As technology has advanced" is a slippery slope to "we can bring any pregnancy to term outside the womb." So it's simply convenient for you and Dad to slough off this argument.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10004209843701697773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-18351684226047932502012-02-13T15:41:39.281-06:002012-02-13T15:41:39.281-06:00Jim, The humanity of the child in the womb is cent...Jim, The humanity of the child in the womb is central. How can it not cheapen life, if it's so easy to dismiss the humanity and worthiness of a life in the womb? As to sex outside marriage, it is damaging, yet, that is a choice we all make, many times, to our detriment. You say forced birth is the price a woman pays. Death is the child's price. Again, how can this NOT cheapen life?Billiamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15489132492383133253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-62684421903925607762012-02-13T06:57:45.077-06:002012-02-13T06:57:45.077-06:00Killing your offspring most certainly cheapens lif...Killing your offspring most certainly cheapens life. Just like promiscuity cheapens love. Or adultery cheapens marriage. <br /><br />A woman's "choice" of what to do with her body happens before conception. And there are many, many very inexpensive options out there that can be used to prevent said conception. That doesn't mean No Sex either, but you already know that. <br /><br />Once there is another human, with another body involved, it isn't all about her anymore. There is more to consider. As technology has advanced, the whole "mass of tissue" argument gets thinner and thinner, so now it is to maintain the growing child as something other than human.<br /><br />Your natural miscarriage question doesn't even rise to the level of a straw man.neomomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04830635556787370135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-22398981928362855152012-02-12T21:15:26.513-06:002012-02-12T21:15:26.513-06:00Show me, in writing, where it is public policy tha...<i>Show me, in writing, where it is public policy that birth control is required.</i><br /><br />Who said it was?<br /><br /><i>Or that it is barred as a matter of public policy</i><br /><br />Who said it was? Is this about the Scalia decision? You know there are principles involved in court decisions which set a guiding precedent in other cases that are not EXACTLY like the specifics of the original.<br /><br /><i>Logic eludes you, Jim.</i><br /><br />Only the made up kind.<br /><br /><i>Seems that you're pretty smart, otherwise.</i><br /><br />How refreshing to hear that from these pages! Thank you.<br /><br /><i>As Freud said, that 'recreational sex' of which you speak is a perversion.</i><br /><br />Actually the perversion is the insistence that the above is true. I suppose with my wife being post menopausal, it's all over for us. Or should I make love under the delusion that if God wills it, we WILL create a child?<br /><br />Ah, the Sex Nazis. "No sex for YOU!"<br /><br />Billiam, pay no attention to Dadio's interpretations. Read what I said, and respond if you like. Dadio does not speak for me or "libruls" in general. He just makes up stuff.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10004209843701697773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-31599570074327630572012-02-12T20:00:26.437-06:002012-02-12T20:00:26.437-06:00Jim follows the Rawls:
Unfortunately for liberals...Jim follows the Rawls:<br /><br />Unfortunately for liberals, this position — outlined in excruciating detail by the seer of modern secular liberalism, the late John Rawls — is self-refuting. Why? <b>Because it, ahem, privileges a legal and political commitment to relativity about moral questions. It’s the same absurdity underlying the philosophical skeptic’s claim that there’s no truth — except for the truth that there is no truth.</b><br /><br />So, Bill, Jim's answer to your question of "humanity of fetus" is, ah, "relative." To whatever the mother and father want that particular day.<br /><br />There is no "is" there, as Clinton and Jim would tell you.Dad29https://www.blogger.com/profile/08554276286736923821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-54251897312722414702012-02-12T19:40:03.793-06:002012-02-12T19:40:03.793-06:00Yes, Jim. As Freud said, that 'recreational s...Yes, Jim. As Freud said, that 'recreational sex' of which you speak is a perversion.<br /><br />May as well admit that and proceed from there.Dad29https://www.blogger.com/profile/08554276286736923821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-15280876985204502192012-02-12T19:36:27.154-06:002012-02-12T19:36:27.154-06:00Well, Jimbo....
Show me, in writing, where it is ...Well, Jimbo....<br /><br />Show me, in writing, where it is public policy that birth control is required. Or that it is barred as a matter of public policy--as was peyote.<br /><br />Logic eludes you, Jim. Too bad. Seems that you're pretty smart, otherwise.Dad29https://www.blogger.com/profile/08554276286736923821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-11435352832797411022012-02-12T19:27:12.305-06:002012-02-12T19:27:12.305-06:00Billiam,
With all our tech, how can one deny a ba...Billiam,<br /><br /><i>With all our tech, how can one deny a baby in the womb is not human?</i><br /><br />There are so many factors that can be addressed in this question. Like, what is the definition of "human" vs. "a human" or "a human being". I would further challenge you that an embryo in the womb at, say 5 weeks," can be brought to term outside the womb short of Frankenstein's lab.<br /><br />So I don't think the above question is pertinent.<br /><br /><i>And please, don't demean our discussion with a woman's natural time of the month. That's beneath you.</i><br /><br />I'm not talking about "natural time of the month". I'm talking about natural termination of a pregnancy post implantation.<br /><br /><i>The child's life is ended for, many times, simply being inconvenient.</i><br /><br />That is irrelevant. Are you going to provide any circumstance in which a family's personal decision to terminate a pregnancy is less "abhorrent" than another?<br /><br /><i>As to legal, just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's right.</i><br /><br />I'll grant you that. Look at what happened on Wall Street.<br /><br /><i>By that logic, a woman shouldn't be upset if her husband goes to Nevada and visits a brothel. </i><br /><br />Sorry, but that doesn't equate. There is just no way to make that an apt comparison. So I reject that the "it's legal line" is absurd. "It's legal" means "it's legal". There are lot's of things that are legal that some people think is morally wrong. Lottery? Adultery? Masturbation?<br /><br /><i>They are changed by changing hearts and attitudes.</i> True, kind of like same-sex marriage.<br /><br />I don't believe that abortion cheapens life. Denying a woman the right to make choices about her body cheapens her life. It's forced birth.<br /><br />In the end I don't believe this is about "unborn children" or an embryo that is or isn't "human". It's really about people having sex outside of marriage or without the purpose of procreation. Forced birth is the price a woman pays.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10004209843701697773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-20872101211283837322012-02-12T18:10:54.292-06:002012-02-12T18:10:54.292-06:00And, by the way, contraception is not a matter of ...<i>And, by the way, contraception is not a matter of 'public policy.'</i><br /><br />Clearly that is not true.<br /><br /><i>Perhaps you can document your observations about miscarriages, Jim?</i><br /><br />Define "miscarriage" then. At what point post implantation is a naturally terminated pregnancy a "miscarriage"?<br /><br /><i>Perhaps you'll understand.</i><br /><br />Pffft!Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10004209843701697773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-11718691245502141952012-02-12T14:30:05.384-06:002012-02-12T14:30:05.384-06:00Perhaps you can document your observations about m...Perhaps you can document your observations about miscarriages, Jim?<br /><br />As to the Scalia quote: you're completely off-point.<br /><br />Scalia observes that the Fed can RESTRAIN someone when their religious practice is against public policy.<br /><br />Obozo proposes to force Catholics TO DO something which is directly against a tenet of the faith.<br /><br />And, by the way, contraception is not a matter of 'public policy.'<br /><br />Perhaps you'll understand.Dad29https://www.blogger.com/profile/08554276286736923821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12897315.post-4126008308786284812012-02-12T14:16:56.293-06:002012-02-12T14:16:56.293-06:00Billiam,
No apologies needed. I hope your mom is...Billiam,<br /><br />No apologies needed. I hope your mom is well.<br /><br />More response later.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10004209843701697773noreply@blogger.com